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Any comments, suggestions and bug reports
regarding the subtitle.
E-mail to: geek@geekbone.org

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I was at Agenda 2000

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and uh, one of the people who was there
was Craig Mundie,

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who is some kind of
high mucky muck at Microsoft,

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00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,500
I think uh, vice-president of consumer products
or something like that.

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And uh, I hadn't actually met him

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I, I, I, uh, bumped in to him in an,
in an elevator... in an elevator

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And uh, I looked at his badge and said,
"Oh, I see you work for Microsoft."

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And he looked back to me and said,
"Oh, yeah and what do you do?"

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And I thought he seemed just a sort of a tad dismissive

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I mean,  here's the archetypal, you know,
guy in a suit

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looking at a scruffy hacker

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And so I gave him the thousand
yard stare and said,

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"I'm your worst nightmare."

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Wonderview Productions
PRESENTS

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A
J.T.S. Moore
FILM

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REVOLUTION OS

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For most its short, but colorful history,

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the computer industry has been dominated

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by the Windows operating system.

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But that could soon change,

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as Windows faces a strong challenge from Linux

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Silicon Valley has long been the place

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to develop new technology,

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start new companies and get really rich.

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Now The Valley is the front line in a revolution

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fighting for that most
politically incorrect of ideas:

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individual freedom

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Day and night,
a loose confederation of

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hackers and programmers zaps bits pieces of

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computer code around the world as it builds the tools

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to set computer users free

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using open information and
the free exchange of technology

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to achieve its goals.

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This revolution began in the 1980's with

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the Free Software Movement and GNU project.

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And now is most commonly associated

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with Linux and the Open Source Movement.

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What is Linux?

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We do have one sector that taking off today.

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It is the Linux-related sector.

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And I thought this might be
a good opportunity to say,

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"What is Linux?"

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And I'll answer this question for you.

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Many of you probably already know,

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but
There are 12 million users out there

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A computer Operating System
developed by hundreds of

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programmers collaborating on the Internet

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A challenge to Microsoft Windows NT

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Very popular for its speed

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and so this's what the craze is about

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To kind of explain what Linux is you have to

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explain what an Operating System is

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And... the thing about Operating System is
you, I mean...

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you're never ever supposed to see it.

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Because...

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nobody really uses an Operating System,

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people use... programs... on their computer

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And the only mission in life

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of an operating system is to help
those programs run.

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So an operating system never does
anything on its own

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It's only waiting for the programs to

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ask for certain resources or,

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or, ask for a certain file on the disk

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or ask for the programs to

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connect them to the outside world.

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And then the operating system
comes, steps in and then

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tries to make it easy for people
to write programs

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And, What is Open Source?

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Open Source is a way for people to collaborate

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on software without being encumbered
by all of the problems of intellectual property,

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having to negotiate contracts every time
you buy a piece of software,

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have a lot of lawyers involved.

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In general, we just wanna get the software to work

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and we want be able to have

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people contribute fixes to that, etc..

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So we sort of sacrifice some of

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the intellectual property rights

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and just let the whole world
use the software

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Before there could be Linux

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There was Richard Stallman
and the Free Software Movement.

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They think of Richard Stallman as the...

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great philosopher, right.

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And think of me as the engineer

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Richard Stallman is the founding father of
the Free Software Movement.

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Through his efforts to build the
GNU Operating System.

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He created the legal, philosophical and
technological foundation

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for the Free Software Movement.

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Without these contributions,

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it's unlikely that Linux and Open Source

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would have evolved in to their current forms today

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I joined the
MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab in 1971,

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I joined... a thriving community of hackers,

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people who loved programming,

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loved exploring the what they could do
with computers.

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And they had developed
a complete Operating System,

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entirely written there.

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And I became one of the team, that

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continued to improve the Operating System,
adding new capabilities

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That was my job, and I loved it, we all loved it.
That's why we were doing it.

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And [clears throat] we called our system

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"the Incompatible Time Sharing System"

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which is an example of the

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playful spirit

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which defines a hacker.

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Hackers are people who enjoy
playful cleverness.

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Well, it first started going wrong

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as the outside world started pressuring us
to have passwords.

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We didn't have any passwords
on our computer.

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And the reason was that the hackers

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who'd originally designed the system

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realized that passwords were a way
the administrators could control all the users.

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And they didn't want to build tools

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you know, locks and keys for
the administrators to control them,

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so they just didn't do it.
They left that out

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And we had the philosophy
that whoever sitting at the computer

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should be able to do whatever he wants

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and somebody else who was there yesterday
shouldn't be controlling what you do today

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When they put passwords onto one of
the machines at MIT

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I and bunch of other hackers didn't like it,

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I decided to try a subversive sort of hack.
[clears throat]

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I figured out how to decode the passwords,

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so by looking at the database of encoded passwords

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I could figure out what each person
would actually type to login

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And so I sent messages to people, saying,

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"Hello? I see that you've
chosen the password mumble,

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whatever it was.
How about if you do as I do

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just type Enter for your password

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it's much shorter, much easier to type".

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And... of course with this message I was

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implicitly telling them
the security was really just a joke.

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Anyway, but in addition
I was letting them in on this hack.

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And eventually, A fifth of all the
users on that computer joined me

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in using just Enter as their passwords.

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[ Where did the ideas that lead to what is now
called Open Source world?

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How did that begin? Who began that? ]

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It actually began with the start
of computers because at that time

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software was just passed around between people

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And I think it was only like in the
lates 70's or early 80's

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That people started really closing up
their software,

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And saying, "No, you can never
get a look at the source code.

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You can't change the software
even if it's necessary

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for you to fix it, for your own application"

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And... um, you can actually blame
some of that on Microsoft,

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They are one of the real pioneers
of the proprietary software model.

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In the mid 1970's, a group of hackers

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and computer hobbyist in Silicon Valley
formed the "Homebrew Computer Club".

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In the club January 31, 1976 newsletter,

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Bill Gates of the recently formed Microsoft,

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wrote an open letter to the community

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where he made a point by point argument for
the relatively new concept of proprietary software

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up to that point, the practice of computer users
had been to freely pass around software

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with not much thought given to
its ownership

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Known as An Open Letter to Hobbyists,
Bill Gates writes,

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"To me the most critical thing
in the hobby market right now

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is the lack of good software courses,
books and software itself.

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Without good software and an owner
who understands programming,

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A hobby computer is wasted.

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Will quality software be written
for the hobby market?

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Gates goes on to write,
"The feedback we have gotten from

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the hundreds of people who say they are
using BASIC has all been positive.

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Two surprising things are apparent, however.

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1) Most of these "users" never
bought BASIC, and

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2) The amount of royalties we have received
from sales to hobbyists

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makes the time spent on of Altair BASIC
worth less than 2 dollars an hour

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Why is this?

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As the majority of hobbyists must be aware,

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most of you steal your software.

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Hardware must be paid for but software
is something to share.

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Who cares if the people who worked
on it get paid?

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Is this fair?

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One thing you don't do by stealing software

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is get back at MITS for some problem
you may have had

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MITS doesn't make money selling software.

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One thing you do do is prevent
good software from being written.

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Who can afford to do professional work for nothing?

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What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming,

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finding all bugs, documenting his product
and distribute it for free?

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The fact is,

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no one besides us has invested a lot of money
in hobby software.

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What about the guys who resell Altair BASIC?

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Aren't they making money on hobby software?

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00:09:07,300 --> 00:09:10,800
Yes, but those who have been
reported to us may lose in the end.

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They are the ones who give
hobbyists a bad name,

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and should be kicked out of any
club meeting they show up at.

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I would appreciate letters from
anyone who wants to pay up,

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or has a suggestion or comment.

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Signed Bill Gates, General partner, Micro-Soft.

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In the late 70's and early 1980's,
Richard Stallman was

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doing Artificial Intelligence research and coding

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at the MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab.

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Richard had a number of negative experiences

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during that period which soured him

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on the whole idea of commercial software.

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[ such as? ]

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uh... some company wanted to work on and
wanted to fix was locked up.

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and he couldn't get the company that owned
on the code to let him fix it

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even though it would have been to their advantage to do so.

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And that put me into a moral dilemma, you see?

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Because to get one of the modern computers
of the day, which was the early 80's,

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you would have to get a proprietory
operating system.

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00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:09,400
The developers of those systems
didn't share with other people,

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Instead they tried to control the users,

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dominate the users, restrict them.

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Say, if to get the system,

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you have to sign a  promise you won't
share with anybody else.

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And to me that was essentially a promise
to be a bad person,

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to betray the rest of the world,

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00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,100
cut myself off from society
from a cooperating community.

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And I had already experienced what happened
when other people did that to us,

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when they refused to share with us.

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because they had signed these contracts.

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And it hurt the whole lab,

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it kept us from doing useful things before.

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So I just wasn't going to do that.

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I thought,"This is wrong!
I am not going to live this way"

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And from experiences like this
he developed a profound hostility

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to the idea of
intellectual property and software.

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00:10:56,700 --> 00:11:00,300
He eventually acted this out
by founding the Free Software Foundation.

220
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,900
So, I looked for another alternative
and I realized:

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00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,500
I was an operating system developer.

222
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,300
If I were to develop another operating system.

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00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:14,100
And then as the author,
encourage everyone to share it.

224
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,900
Say, everyone, " You come and get it,
use this, form a new community"

225
00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:23,200
Not only could I gave myself a way
to keep using computers without

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00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:26,500
betraying other people,
but I'd give it to everybody else, too.

227
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,500
Everybody would have a
way out of that moral dilemma

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00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,300
And so I realized this was
what I had to do with my life.

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I actually began the project in January of 1984.

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00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,500
That's when I resigned for my job at MIT

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00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,400
to start developing the GNU operating system.

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Now I should explain the name GNU is a hack.

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00:11:49,900 --> 00:11:52,700
Because it's a recursive acronym.

234
00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:56,100
It stands for "GNU's Not Unix".

235
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,300
You see so the "G" in "GNU" stands for "GNU".

236
00:11:59,300 --> 00:12:01,400
And what the name means is

237
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,900
I was developing a system that was like
the Unix operating system,

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00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:08,300
but was not the Unix operating system.

239
00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:09,800
This was a different system.

240
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,200
We would have to write it completely
from scratch

241
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,100
because Unix was proprietory.

242
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,000
We were forbidden to share Unix,

243
00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:19,700
We couldn't use Unix.
It was useless for a community.

244
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,300
So we had to write a replacement for it.

245
00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:26,100
Throughout the 1980s,

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00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,700
as Richard Stallman was building the GNU project,

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00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:32,300
computer scientists from
the University of California at Berkeley

248
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,700
were developing their own free
operating system.

249
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Known as Berkeley Unix, or BSD,

250
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,500
it was based upon the Unix kernel
which had been licensed from AT&T.

251
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,300
However, due to legal problems with AT&T
and fragmentation of the source code,

252
00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:50,100
hackers and other non-institutional users
were slow to adopt it

253
00:12:50,300 --> 00:12:54,300
Well, Unix consisted of a large number of
separate programs

254
00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:56,400
that communicated with each other.

255
00:12:56,500 --> 00:12:59,400
So we just had to replace these programs
one by one.

256
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:03,200
So what I started doing was
writing a replacement for one program,

257
00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:05,100
and then another, and then another,

258
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,900
and then people started joining me,

259
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,600
because I published an announcement
inviting other people to join me

260
00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:12,300
to help write these programs.

261
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:20,000
And uh... and by around 1991,
we had replaced practically all of them.

262
00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:21,800
[ What were some of the programs that you ... ]

263
00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:25,000
Well... we had to... to have a complete system,

264
00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:28,700
you need to have a kernel, which is the program that

265
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,600
allocates resources to all the other programs,

266
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,100
you need a compiler, which translates a program

267
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,500
from readable source code
that programmers can understand into numbers,

268
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,900
mysterious numbers
that the computer can actually run.

269
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,500
you need other programs
that go with the compiler to help do this job.

270
00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:48,600
you need a debugger.

271
00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:50,300
you need a text editor.

272
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:51,500
you need text formatters.

273
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,400
you need mailers...

274
00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:54,800
you need lots and lots of things.

275
00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:58,500
There are hundreds of programs
in a Unix-like operating system.

276
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I saw Stallman's announcement.

277
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,900
Actually I met him in February of 1987.

278
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,500
He came to give a five-day tutorial
on Emacs at our company.

279
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,200
And during the day he would explain

280
00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:13,400
new ways to think about Emacs

281
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:16,500
and ways to extend it, enhance it,
and to use the Emacs source code

282
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:18,400
uh, for better or worse.

283
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:21,700
But in the evening,
he was busily working on this compiler,

284
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,100
and he had not yet released it to the public,

285
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,800
so he was uh, being a little bit uh,
careful about

286
00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:30,300
who, who got to see the source code.

287
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,800
But I was very eager,
and when he first announced it in June,

288
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:35,500
I downloaded it immediately.

289
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:37,100
I, I played with it.

290
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,400
I got some, some pointers from him.

291
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,200
And when I sent the source code back to him,

292
00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:42,500
he was very,

293
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,300
uh, actually amazed that how quickly
I was able to ramp up on his technology.

294
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:48,300
Whenever we worked on something
at Stanford or in the university,

295
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:52,300
Whenever we worked on something
at Stanford or in the university,

296
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,200
we would get, mostly at the time

297
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:58,200
we were working off machines
from Digital Equipment or Sun, mostly Sun.

298
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,900
Whenever we would get a Sun machine,

299
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:04,500
the first thing we would do is
we would spend literally days

300
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,600
downloading GNU free software from the Internet,

301
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:11,100
building it and installing it on that Sun machine.

302
00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:14,800
The crucial thing about GNU is that
it's free software.

303
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,700
And Free Software refers not to price,
but to freedom.

304
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:21,200
So think of free speech, not free beer.

305
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,500
The freedoms that I am talking about

306
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:27,500
are the freedoms to make changes if you want to,

307
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,300
or hire somebody else to make changes for you

308
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,500
if you're using a software for your business,

309
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,300
to redistribute copies,
to share with other people,

310
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,500
and to make improvements and publish them

311
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,500
so that other people can
get the benefit of them, too.

312
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,400
And those are the freedoms that distinguish
free software from non-free software.

313
00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:50,500
These are the freedoms that
enable people to form a community.

314
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,100
If you don't have all these freedoms,

315
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:54,900
you're being divided and
dominated by somebody.

316
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:59,000
My first experience contributing to free software

317
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,000
came in late 1989, early 1990.

318
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,200
I was working as a graduate student
at Stanford University

319
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,600
on Computer Aided Design tools.

320
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:10,800
One of the pieces I needed was a tool

321
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:12,500
called a parser generator.

322
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,800
Well, the Free Software Foundation

323
00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:18,300
under Richard Stallman
created a great tool called "bison".

324
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:22,400
I needed a tool that worked with C++.
Bison worked with C.

325
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:26,100
I modified bison to create something
called "bison++".

326
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,700
And it's a tremendous feeling of empowerment

327
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,900
be able to take a piece of software that was available

328
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,500
and create what you needed
in a very short piece of time by modifying it.

329
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:39,100
I put it back on the Internet

330
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,900
and I was amazed at the number of people

331
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,900
that picked it up and started using it.

332
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,000
In fact, I remember going to, uh job interviews,

333
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:50,100
I, at various times, considered
just going out getting a job.

334
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:52,100
And I'd gone to a job interview.

335
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,600
And I was talking to one of the people,

336
00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:56,500
and I started asking them about what tools they used,

337
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,000
and they said, "Gee, we used bison++!"

338
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:01,400
and I said, "Oh, I am the author of bison++!"

339
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,100
Free Software generally does have a copyright.

340
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,800
It does have an owner.

341
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:10,000
And it has a license.

342
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:11,900
It is not public domain.

343
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,600
If we put the software in the public domain,

344
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,900
somebody else would be able to make
a little bit of changes

345
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,900
and turn that into a proprietory software package,

346
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,800
which means that
the users would be running our software,

347
00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:26,800
but they wouldn't have freedom to cooperate and share.

348
00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:31,200
To prevent that, we use a technique called "Copyleft".

349
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:34,700
The idea of Copyleft is that
it's "Copyright" flipped over.

350
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:37,200
And what we do is, we say,

351
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:39,200
this software is copyrighted

352
00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:43,600
and we, the authors give you permission
to redistribute copies,

353
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:45,200
we give you permission to change,

354
00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:46,900
we give you permission to add to it.

355
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,700
But when you redistribute it,

356
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,500
it has to be under these terms,
no more and no less.

357
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,800
So that whoever gets it from you

358
00:17:54,900 --> 00:18:00,200
also gets the freedom to cooperate
with other people, if he wants to.

359
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:03,800
And then, in this way everywhere the software goes,

360
00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:05,500
the freedom goes, too.

361
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,900
And it becomes an inalienable right

362
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,600
to cooperate with other people and form a community.

363
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,100
[ And so, what is that? the license?
what was that... ]

364
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,200
Well, Copyleft being a general idea,

365
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:20,300
in order to use it, you have to have specific example.

366
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,100
The specific example we use for
most GNU software packages

367
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,100
is the GNU General Public License,

368
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,200
a particular document in legalese
which accomplishes this job.

369
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:34,200
A lot of other people use that same license,
for example,

370
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:37,700
Linus Torvalds uses that license for Linux as well.

371
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:42,200
Well, the license I use is the
GNU General Public License.

372
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:44,200
That's the one Richard Stallman wrote.

373
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:48,200
And I think it is really astounding contribution.

374
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:52,300
Uh, it's one of the few software licenses
that was written

375
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,000
from the standpoint of the community rather than

376
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:59,900
from the standpoint of um, protecting a company

377
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,500
or um, as is the case with MIT and BSD license

378
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:09,400
performing the goals of
a government grant program.

379
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,500
Uh, and the GPL is really unique in that.

380
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,000
It's not just a license.
It's a whole philosophy that,

381
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:19,100
I think, motivated the open source definition.

382
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,500
I don't hide that a lot of what I do came from Stallman.

383
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:31,900
A crucial step in the growth of GNU/Linux
and the Free Software movement

384
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,600
was the creation of businesses
based upon the software and philosophy.

385
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,300
Grown zero for the beginning of
the business phase

386
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,500
was the Electronics Research Lab
at Stanford University.

387
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,100
Known as ERL, the lab was the place for the first GNU

388
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,500
and Linux business founder inspiration.

389
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,600
So right here was where ERL was.

390
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:53,200
That would have been the entrance
over there next to the uh,

391
00:19:53,300 --> 00:19:55,600
electrical engineering McCullough building.

392
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:59,500
As you walk in, you come in,
you walk down the hallway, down here.

393
00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:03,600
My office would have been about, about here.

394
00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:07,000
and then right across the hall,
from that was Michael Tiemann's office.

395
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:11,700
Michael Tiemann took uh.. and
started a company, Cygnus Software

396
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:16,600
with the idea was to sell consulting
and services around the GNU Free Software

397
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,000
and, well Michael's done very well with Cygnus.

398
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,000
Well uh, I spend a lot of
time working out uh,

399
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,000
how we were going to make money

400
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,000
and in the original GNU manifesto

401
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,000
which is the last chapter
of the GNU Emacs manual.

402
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000
Stallman proposed a number of different

403
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,800
possible ways to make money.

404
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,800
From the beginning of the
Free Software movement

405
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,000
I had the idea that there's

406
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,000
room in it for business to be done.

407
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,700
One of the advantages of Free Software is that, there's

408
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:45,000
a free market for any kind of service or support.

409
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,000
So if you are using software in your business,

410
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,000
and you want good support,

411
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
you have a choice of people to go to for it,

412
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,000
you have a choice of businesses... that

413
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,000
are in the business of
providing you with support.

414
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000
So they are going to have to in general give you

415
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,000
good support or you go to somebody else.

416
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,000
With proprietory software,

417
00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:07,000
support is a monopoly, there is one company,

418
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,600
typically, that has the source code

419
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,500
and only they can give you support

420
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:15,300
so typically, you are at the mercy of a monopoly.

421
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:17,600
That's the case, for example with Microsoft.

422
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,900
So no wonder the support is so bad.

423
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:22,500
The benefits of Free Software were

424
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:25,200
tremendous but the cost of supporting it internally

425
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,800
uh, and made managers very very nervous and

426
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,500
so the fundamental idea I had was
if we can build a model

427
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:35,500
that could deliver two to four times the support

428
00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:39,000
and uh, and uh, and hand holding capability

429
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,100
that an internal engineer could provide.

430
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:44,100
And we could do it at 1/2 to 1/4 of the cost

431
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:46,300
that would meet the test of whether or not

432
00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:47,900
people would actually buy.

433
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:50,400
And by about the Fall of that year, we had

434
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,300
all the things worked out about who

435
00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:53,900
needed on the technical team, what

436
00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:55,800
the terms the sale would be, what

437
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,600
the key price point were, and we

438
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,600
actually received our incorporation in Nov of 1989.

439
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,800
One of the most difficult things in starting our company

440
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,400
was actually finding a name for it.

441
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,000
I explained this to one of my friends

442
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,400
"we're having difficulty"

443
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,900
and he returned an e-mail message

444
00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:16,800
that basically just had a bunch of words
with the name "GNU" in it.

445
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,600
And "Cygnus" was the one that
looked least obnoxious and least obscene.

446
00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:24,600
I can say very clearly that Cygnus

447
00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:28,600
was the first business that specialized in Free Software.

448
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,100
Cygnus supported Free Software,

449
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:36,100
filled a very essential niche because
we had this great software,

450
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:40,100
you could get it for nothing but
you couldn't get support - they made their money

451
00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:42,200
by charging for support.

452
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,900
The GNU project started by building a toolkit,

453
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:50,800
uh, basic development tools such as
a C compiler, a debugger, a text-editor,

454
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:54,500
and uh, other necessary apparatus.

455
00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:59,000
And their intention was eventually to
develop a kernel to sit underneath those

456
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,600
and be the center of the operating system.

457
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,400
By about 1990 they had successfully
developed that toolkit,

458
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,400
and it was in wide use on great many variants of Unix.

459
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:12,100
But there was still no free kernel.

460
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:16,100
The kernel happened to be
one of the last things we started to do

461
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,400
and we had started it not long before.

462
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,400
And that's when Linus Torvalds came along.

463
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,700
"Lin-us" or "Line-us"? What's the exact,
do you prefer the pronunciation?

464
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,600
um.. When I speak Swedish it's "Lee-nus";

465
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,000
when I speak Finnish it's "Leen-ous";

466
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,800
when I speak English it's "Line-us".

467
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,600
And I really don't care how people pronounce my name.

468
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,400
But "Linux" is always "Linux".

469
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,800
He developed a kernel, and got it working
faster than we got ours working,

470
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,900
and got it to work very nicely and solidly.

471
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:47,800
His kernel is called "Linux".

472
00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:51,500
The initial goal was my very personal goal

473
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,100
to be able to run a similar environment on my computer

474
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:59,300
that I had grown used to at, at the university computers.

475
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:05,300
And I could not find anything that suited me for that.

476
00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:09,400
So having been doing computers for all my life basically.

477
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,500
At that point I decided that I'll do my own.

478
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,000
Most of the inspiration early on came from, from SunOS

479
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,900
which was what um,
I was using at the university at the time.

480
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:23,000
[ Which University? ]

481
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,700
University of Helsinki in Finland.

482
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,100
From 1991 to about 1993 was really

483
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,700
I guess the infancy period of Linux.

484
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:36,400
That was when it was still only alpha or beta quality;

485
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,800
it was relatively unstable.

486
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,600
Although, even then it was a good deal more stable

487
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,600
than a lot of what are now called
"production" operating systems.

488
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,600
Linus used the traditional
tried-and-true method of writing one program

489
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:52,500
that does the job,

490
00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:54,800
and he got it to work.

491
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,500
quickly in fact faster than
I would have thought was possible.

492
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:01,500
The term for it is "monolithic",

493
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:09,400
which means that basically
the OS itself is one entity, indivisible.

494
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:13,400
uh, while in the microkernel,

495
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,900
the, the operating system kernel is actually

496
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,700
uh, just a collection of servers that

497
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:23,500
do different things and then they have a common protocol

498
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:25,700
for doing communication between themselves.

499
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,800
[ So why is that... the GNU project that's had
so much lead-time, that's been doing this,

500
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,100
Why...Why is it that he was able to kinda
come in at the tail end so to speak ]

501
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:40,800
Well we actually started the
GNU Hurd not long before he started Linux.

502
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:45,700
And it happened though we chose a design
that's a very advanced design

503
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:48,300
in terms of the power gives you

504
00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:50,900
but also turns out to be very hard to debug.

505
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:57,300
We decided to divide up the kernel
which traditionally had been one program,

506
00:25:57,300 --> 00:25:59,600
to divide it up into a lot of smaller programs

507
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,600
that would send messages to
each other asynchronously to, to communicate.

508
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,500
The problem is that, that style of programming

509
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:11,800
has a great deal of potential for bugs,

510
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,700
which are often very hard to
figure out because they depend on...

511
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:22,100
does this program send this message
before or after this one sends that message...

512
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:27,300
And the result was:
it took us years to get the thing to work.

513
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:31,700
[ What is Linux's relationship to the GNU project? ]

514
00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:39,100
Well there's relationships to GNU
on kind of multiple levels.

515
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,600
One is just the philosophical level of thinking that

516
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,700
"making your source open is a good idea".

517
00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:51,300
When Linus developed the kernel
he wasn't doing it for the GNU project.

518
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:52,800
He did it independently.

519
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,200
And he released it independently
and we didn't know about it.

520
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,500
But some of the people who did know about it

521
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:01,000
decided to look for what else they could find

522
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,300
to put together with that kernel to
make a whole system.

523
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:08,300
They looked around, and lo and behold
everything they needed was already available.

524
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:09,500
They looked around, and lo and behold
everything they needed was already available.

525
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,600
"What good fortune!" they thought.

526
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,900
But actually there was no chance about it.

527
00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:17,900
They had found all the pieces of the
GNU system which was missing just the kernel,

528
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:20,600
so when they put all that together

529
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,600
really they were fitting
Linux into the gap in the GNU system.

530
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,400
But they didn't know that.

531
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,800
There's a lot of these programs

532
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:34,600
um, done by the Free Softwares Foundation,

533
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,800
and done by other people like Linux.

534
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,800
And there's a symbiosis between
Linux and the programs

535
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:44,700
that the programs run on Linux and at the same time

536
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:47,100
and they take the advantage of Linux as a platform,

537
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:50,700
while Linux takes the advantage of the programs

538
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:52,700
by just being able to use them.

539
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:54,300
[ What...What programs? ]

540
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:56,100
umm...

541
00:27:56,100 --> 00:27:59,100
The main one is actually the GNU C Compiler.

542
00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:03,300
Which... Without a C compiler
it would not have been possible

543
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:09,500
to make Linux or most of the open progress available.

544
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:12,700
Linux uses the GPL,

545
00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:17,400
and I agree with a kind of philosophy behind the GPL.

546
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:23,200
That said the GPL itself is not a very pretty document

547
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,800
which is probably just because
no lawyerese can ever be very pretty.

548
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,800
I'd been playing around with Linux for actually

549
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,300
late '92 or early '93 for about a year.

550
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:45,900
before I decided that it was to the point
where actually had everything that I needed

551
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,300
to really replace a Sun Workstation.

552
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:52,300
And I was looking for a way to
have a Unix workstation at home

553
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,400
at the time we used Sun Sparc Stations
in the office at Stanford.

554
00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:00,400
Those machines cost us about 7,000 dollars.

555
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,900
Now I desperately wanted a Unix machine at home!

556
00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:05,600
There's always a this thought
you get as a graduate student

557
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:06,900
"Gee... if I could work at home!

558
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:08,800
Then I would be so much more productive,

559
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,900
I would graduate sooner because
I would finish my thesis sooner"

560
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:16,000
Well, Well, is it true? Well, you can judge.

561
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,800
You know most people end up spending a lot of their time

562
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,300
becoming more productive so that

563
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:24,500
they ever actually worked on their thesis
they'd finish it in a day.

564
00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:26,200
It takes a while sometimes.

565
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,500
So I decided that I wanted a Unix machine at home.

566
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:32,500
And I went out there I was able to
use Linux together with the PC.

567
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:36,500
For about 2,000 dollars, I put together a system.

568
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,400
That was one and a half to two times faster

569
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,100
than that 7,000 dollars Sun Sparc Station.

570
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:43,800
It was absolutely amazing.

571
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,800
I had one and a half to two times the speed,

572
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,500
at a third to fourth the price.

573
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:50,800
Light bulbs went off.

574
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,000
I knew there was an opportunity here.

575
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,000
This was the chance to really do something
better than what Sun has done

576
00:29:57,100 --> 00:29:59,700
around Open Source and Linux.

577
00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:03,300
I called it Linux originally as working name.

578
00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:06,800
And that was just because "Linus"

579
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,000
and the "X" has to be there.

580
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,100
It's Unix. It's like a law.

581
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,000
And...what happened was that...

582
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,800
I initially thought that I can't call it Linux publicly,

583
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,100
because it is just too egotistical.

584
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:22,400
And that was before I had a big ego. Right?

585
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,700
They thought they were taking a whole bunch
of components putting them around Linux

586
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,400
So they ended up calling the whole thing
"A Linux System"

587
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,100
and somehow that term caught on.

588
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:34,600
And the result is

589
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,600
there are now ten million people using

590
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,100
this variant of the GNU system...

591
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:42,400
the GNU/Linux operating system.

592
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,500
And most of them don't know it.

593
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,800
[ Some people advocate it be described as GNU/Linux.

594
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,300
I mean what's your thought on
that? I would say, justify or... ]

595
00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:57,600
Well, I think it's justified but it is justified
if you actually make GNU distribution of Linux.

596
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:05,100
The same way that I think that Red Hat Linux
is fine or SuSE Linux, or Debian Linux.

597
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000
Uh, because if you actually make your
own distribution of Linux

598
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,800
You get to name the thing.

599
00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:14,900
But calling Linux in general "GNU Linux"
I think, is just ridiculous.

600
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,600
I got involved in Fall '93.

601
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:25,100
Because I was sent a copy of the first CD-ROM
commercial Linux distribution,

602
00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:28,500
which was called Yggdrasi produced by Adam Richter.

603
00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:30,600
And I got a copy because...

604
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,500
I had been myself writing Free Software for
a long time since the early 80's.

605
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,100
I was actually one of the
early GNU contributors myself.

606
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:39,800
And I was absolutely astonished,

607
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,300
I was completely astonished.

608
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:45,300
Because I've been a software engineer
for nearly 15 years at that point.

609
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,200
And according to all the rules I knew...

610
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,900
about controlling complexity,
keeping a project group small,

611
00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,700
having closely managed objectives.

612
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:57,000
Linux should have been a disaster, and it wasn't.

613
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,100
Instead, it was something wonderful,

614
00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:02,400
and I was determined to figure out
how they were getting a way with that.

615
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:07,900
In order for Linux to grow beyond
the world of the computer programmer

616
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:11,900
It needed a use, an application
that made it a must-have technology

617
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,900
That threshold was crossed

618
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:17,700
with the development of a program
that made complex websites possible

619
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,600
That program is the Apache web server.

620
00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:24,600
The killer app of Linux was undoubtedly
the Apache web server.

621
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,100
If you look at the history of Linux,

622
00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:31,600
the adoption curve of Linux and
the adoption curve of the Internet

623
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,100
exactly track each other.

624
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:38,100
1993, which was when the Apache
web server project really got started,

625
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:41,700
was also the beginnings of the popular ISP explosion

626
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:45,500
when the Internet first became a mass market commodity

627
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:47,900
and the idea of web-based electronic commerce

628
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:50,300
and, and mass communication became real.

629
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:54,100
I think it was one of the first applications
that caused people to go

630
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:56,000
"Well, if I install Linux."

631
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,000
I get some tangible benefit from doing so, right?

632
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,800
I mean, clearly there were a lot of
interesting applications on Linux

633
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,700
at, at the time, this being maybe
two or three years ago,

634
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:06,600
when the root thing really started to take off

635
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,300
but there wasn't a driving, you know,

636
00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:10,600
you could almost say business case

637
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,500
for someone to use Linux versus using NT

638
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:16,800
until, I think, Apache and
a lot of the things that plugged into Apache

639
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,300
enhanced Apache

640
00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:21,300
I mean, when you want to go out and build..
go out to build a server farm

641
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,600
It was much more cost effective

642
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,200
cost effective

643
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,100
real dollar returns to build it on Linux and Apache
than was to build it on IIS and NT

644
00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:31,500
even if it meant that you have to
spend a little bit of money

645
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:33,100
to train your staff to learn how to use that or

646
00:33:33,100 --> 00:33:34,800
to find people who were knowledgeable.

647
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:35,900
But the good news was that

648
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:37,600
that knowledge wasn't very expensive

649
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,300
because there were all those college students out there

650
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:42,700
who'd been using Linux for a long time
and were very familiar with it.

651
00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:45,900
If you look at the trend curves in web servers

652
00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:49,600
Apache has steadily been gaining
a market share ever since

653
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,100
it's up to something like 66% now

654
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:55,300
It's steadily clobbered
all of the closed source competition

655
00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:59,700
And that's because it's more reliable
it's more flexible, it's more extensible

656
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:03,000
It does what webmasters actually need

657
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,000
and the combination of Apache and Linux

658
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,300
found its way into a great many commercial shops.

659
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,800
Essentially, Apache became the application
that motivated Internet service providers

660
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,800
and e-commerce companies to choose Linux
over Microsoft's Windows.

661
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,100
It would probably runs best on Linux and on FreeBSD

662
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:25,700
and the reason is the
communities around those operating systems

663
00:34:25,700 --> 00:34:30,100
are also the communities that
contribute the most back to Apache, right?

664
00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:34,100
And there were also the operating systems
that Internet service providers

665
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:35,900
started using very heavily as well

666
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:39,400
and Internet service providers really liked Apache

667
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:40,800
because it allowed them to do

668
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,100
a lot of different things
that some of the commercial web servers didn't

669
00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:48,100
such as the ability to host more than
one web site on a single box, which clearly

670
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,800
if you are an ISP and you would have 40,000 users

671
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,000
and they all want their web site,

672
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,600
is gonna be pretty important to you.

673
00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:57,200
one of the key factors in the growth of Linux was

674
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,000
the creation of companies that
specialized in the distribution

675
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,100
and support of the Operating System itself

676
00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:05,700
Among these companies,
Red Hat Software is the best known.

677
00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:09,100
Red Hat started as a product of Marc Ewing

678
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:10,700
while he was working at IBM.

679
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:12,700
He wanted a little better Linux distribution

680
00:35:12,700 --> 00:35:14,100
he started playing around,

681
00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:18,100
found out he uh, he spent more time
maintaining his Linux distribution

682
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:21,300
than he did uh,
than he did working on his new project.

683
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:25,000
So he uh, sort of started the distribution himself

684
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,600
He met up with Bob Young,

685
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,500
who at the time was running company called
ACC Bookstore

686
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:32,900
which was a mail-order PC Unix uh, catalog

687
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:34,800
And Bob kind of knew he wanted something,

688
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,900
you know, more his own to market,

689
00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:39,300
rather than reselling other people's products

690
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:42,400
And he was fairly good at marketing, and...

691
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:43,800
Mark knew he needed some marketing help

692
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,800
because he was very good at the technical parts,
so they kinda got together

693
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,100
I started working with Red Hat in May of 1995,
basically right out of NC State.

694
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:56,100
along with Eric Troan who, me and him
combined make up employees #4 and #5.

695
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,000
We actually reported to work in an apartment
that Mark Ewing used to live in

696
00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:06,200
We took it over as kind of
the development part of Red Hat software

697
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,100
and stayed that way till about November of 1995 when...

698
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:12,900
a toilet we had in the apartment kind of exploded,

699
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:14,300
flooded our downstairs neighbor

700
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:17,400
and she got little upset and...

701
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,600
the apartment folks found out
we were running a business there

702
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,700
instead of actually living there the same time

703
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:23,100
So they decided to throw us out.

704
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:25,300
So at that point, we had about a week to go find

705
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:27,600
our first office, which we did

706
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,600
and get ourselves moved in a hurry

707
00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:45,100
We started going in again '95 or so
to the venture capital firms,

708
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:48,000
asking, saying, there's something happening here.

709
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,100
There's a great business opportunity,

710
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:54,100
to build the next Sun for open source.

711
00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:57,500
Well, the venture capitalists looked at this and said

712
00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:00,000
"Gee, you are selling systems

713
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,100
the software is free. This is kind of scary.

714
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:04,600
We're not sure that we want to put money in. And...

715
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,000
by the way, we funded other systems companies

716
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,900
and it hasn't really panned out. We are scared."

717
00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:16,200
I came to the US about 3 years ago,

718
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,500
and the reason really was that I'd been spending

719
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,800
like 6 or 7 years at Helsinki University.

720
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,100
and decide it was time to see the real world
and not just university life.

721
00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:32,100
Especially this area had a lot of the most
interesting work being done.

722
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,400
So I just decided that...

723
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,400
let's try to move half way across the world,

724
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:41,100
and give this a try.

725
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:43,100
And it's turned out pretty well.

726
00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:46,000
[ Ah...you see this as temporary or long term? ]

727
00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:49,100
Well, we saw it as temporary at first.

728
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:53,100
And I think it's certainly looking like
it's turning into long term.

729
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,900
Our youngest daughter is
both US and Finnish citizen,

730
00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:58,400
because she was born here

731
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,000
and the older one is speaking
both Swedish and English, so...

732
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,200
The next major event was one that
I had directed hand in.

733
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:34,100
I wrote a paper, called
"The Cathedral & the Bazaar".

734
00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:37,800
which was my observations,
my anthropological analysis

735
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,100
of what it was that made
the open source world work.

736
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:45,400
We didn't call it that then. We were still
using the term "Free Software" primarily.

737
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,100
So it was my observation of
what made the Free Software world work

738
00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:52,400
and why we were able to
produce extremely high quality software

739
00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:56,900
in spite of constantly violating all of
the standard rules of software engineering

740
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,500
In that paper, I was setting up a contrast

741
00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:02,700
between two different styles of development,

742
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:04,400
two opposed styles of development.

743
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:10,000
One, which is the
conventional closed development style,

744
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,500
which I called the "Cathedral" style.

745
00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:15,800
In that one, you have
tight specification of objectives.

746
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:21,100
Small project groups which are run
in a fairly hierarchical authoritarian manner.

747
00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:24,800
And you have long release intervals

748
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,500
On the other hand,what I identified
is happening in the Linux world

749
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:34,100
was a much more peer to peer decentralized,
market or bazaar-like style,

750
00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:36,100
which has a very short release intervals

751
00:39:36,100 --> 00:39:41,100
and constant solicitation of feedback from people
who are formally outside of the project.

752
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:45,100
A very intense peer review process.

753
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,100
And the startling thing was that the more I looked at this,

754
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:52,100
the more it seemed that trading away
all the supposed advantages

755
00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:55,000
of conventional closed development,

756
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,000
for that one single advantage
of massive independent peer review

757
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,000
actually seemed to win,
actually seemed to get you good results.

758
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:08,400
The reason Netscape is important is

759
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,300
that they were the first large company
to participate in open source.

760
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:15,100
We had Cygnus providing support,

761
00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:17,700
but we didn't really have much business.

762
00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:21,500
And Netscape went open source essentially
as a way to fight Microsoft,

763
00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:25,300
which was giving away Internet Explorer,

764
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:29,300
but not letting anyone else have the source code,
not letting companies collaborate.

765
00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:32,000
Working as part of the sales force, I got a bit of,

766
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,400
I got a good idea of.. of why people bought our software

767
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,400
and what it took to make our software successful
in the marketplace against competitive products.

768
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,100
However, the problem was,

769
00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:44,700
we were seeing, as that, as time went on,

770
00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:48,100
our software was uh,

771
00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:51,900
being competed against by other
people's software, particularly Microsoft's

772
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:55,700
and as time went on, the price of our software had to drop

773
00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:57,800
because other people were giving their software away

774
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,800
at no charge or at little charge.

775
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,000
Now the real problem was that they feared

776
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,500
Microsoft would achieve a monopoly lock on the browser market

777
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:10,300
and they would then use that monopoly lock to

778
00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:11,900
pervert actually,

779
00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:15,900
the HTTP and HTML standards that the web depends on.

780
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:19,900
And once they had turned those
standards in to lock in devices,

781
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:23,900
they could then use that control
to drive Netscape out of the server market,

782
00:41:24,300 --> 00:41:26,600
which was where it was making its real money.

783
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,500
My concern was that as time went on,

784
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,300
Netscape's business would be threatened,

785
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:37,100
by the fact that we didn't have enough people
to do what we needed to do as a company

786
00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:41,000
in order to keep our software viable in the marketplace.

787
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:45,300
The Netscape release happened in early 1998.

788
00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:49,300
And uh, I was told later, I had no idea at the time,

789
00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:52,600
that it came about as a direct result of

790
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,400
the right people having read
"The Cathedral and the Bazaar".

791
00:41:55,900 --> 00:41:59,600
"The Cathedral and the Bazaar",
the paper by Eric Raymond,

792
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:05,200
was a significant influence on
Netscape's decision to release source code.

793
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:08,100
It came as a complete shock to me.

794
00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:10,300
I wasn't really ready for the thought

795
00:42:10,300 --> 00:42:12,500
that I was changing the world even by accident.

796
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,200
However he was not by any means
the only influence on that decision.

797
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:19,700
Uh, and not necessarily the most important one,

798
00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:21,400
when all is said and done.

799
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,600
As I said, Netscape,

800
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,600
Netscape had already been talking about
releasing source code for quite some time before

801
00:42:28,300 --> 00:42:30,200
anyone ever heard of Eric's paper.

802
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,600
Linux Congress in early 1997,

803
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,600
which was the first place that I gave that paper.

804
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:39,900
And one of the people who heard it was
Tim O'Reilly of O'Reilly and Associates.

805
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,300
And uh, he thought it was pretty intriguing

806
00:42:43,300 --> 00:42:47,300
and he asked me to give it at
his first PERL conference, which was uh..

807
00:42:47,300 --> 00:42:49,900
later that year, in Fall of 97.

808
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,500
And apparently what happened, I was told later,

809
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:55,000
although I had no idea that this was happening at the time,

810
00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:01,500
uh is that some people from Netscape actually
heard the paper at the PERL conference

811
00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:05,500
and took those ideas back to Netscape and
they kind of lit a fire there.

812
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,600
The role of my paper was essentially
to make the internal case at Netscape, uh

813
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:13,700
to make the business case for
why Netscape should release its source code.

814
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:17,500
The paper was called
"Netscape Source Code As Netscape Product".

815
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,200
uh.. a strange title,
essentially what the title meant was that

816
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,000
In my opinion we needed to

817
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:27,900
think of source code not just as something
that was used in creating our products,

818
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:30,100
but as something that was a product in its own right.

819
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:33,200
Something that customers might use, other people might use.

820
00:43:33,700 --> 00:43:36,500
I then looked at what the business models might be

821
00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:39,400
if we released source code for our products.

822
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,100
How would we license them?

823
00:43:41,100 --> 00:43:45,100
How do we sell products in this environment?

824
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,600
Then I looked at the competition, particularly Microsoft.

825
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,200
What would they be likely to do
if we released source code?

826
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,800
Was there some way they could
use our source code against us?

827
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,800
I used Eric's paper as an example of
how distributed development could work,

828
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,400
how a company could develop software not
just using their own people,

829
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,200
but also working with people on the Internet.

830
00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:10,900
And that's why I included a reference to
Eric's paper in my paper.

831
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,700
Once my paper was circulated,

832
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:15,100
the people who read my paper would naturally enough

833
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:18,100
find a reference to Eric's paper
and read that as well.

834
00:44:18,100 --> 00:44:20,700
[ And who was involved in
making that happen at Netscape? ]

835
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:25,100
Primarily the person who made the
actual decision was Jim Barksdale.

836
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:28,000
And this turned out to be important later.

837
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,800
That our big win, the big score

838
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,400
that gave us mainstream
visibility and credibility with investors

839
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,400
came not because of bottom up evangelism
from a bunch of engineers,

840
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:41,600
but because one strategist at the top

841
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,900
saw the potential power of this method and

842
00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:46,800
then essentially imposed that vision
on everyone underneath him.

843
00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:51,100
When I completed the paper,
I first gave a copy to Mark Andreessen,

844
00:44:51,100 --> 00:44:55,100
who was co-founder of Netscape and
was at the time one of,

845
00:44:55,100 --> 00:44:56,900
on the senior management team at Netscape.

846
00:44:56,900 --> 00:45:00,900
Mark then gave a copy of the paper to several
other people within Netscape management,

847
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,100
including Jim Barksdale.

848
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:06,200
I'm not sure exactly when Jim and
the other senior managers

849
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,300
made the actual decision,

850
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,300
I believe it was in early January sometime.

851
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,900
Netscape actually announced that it was gonna
release the source code on Jan 22nd,

852
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,900
the same time it was going to give
Communicator away for free.

853
00:45:20,300 --> 00:45:23,000
When Netscape decided to release the source code,

854
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,400
people sort of got a wake up notice and said

855
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,900
"Hey, maybe there is something to this idea
of releasing source code

856
00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:32,400
and doing development with people
outside your company."

857
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:38,200
So Netscape's decision brought a lot of
public attention to the idea of Free Software,

858
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,500
what became known as Open Source,

859
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:43,000
and brought a lot of attention to
the Linux operating system,

860
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,000
which was one of the most prominent examples of
Open Source software at that time.

861
00:45:52,500 --> 00:45:55,800
This is our first office, Mountain View, California.

862
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,200
We moved here in early 1995.

863
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,100
This is 4,000 square feet.

864
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:06,700
It was an incredible leap of faith for us to
move out and take the company to our own office.

865
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:09,700
Now what's really important about this place

866
00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:13,300
is that this is the office
where the term "Open Source" was invented.

867
00:46:13,300 --> 00:46:18,000
If you walk in to an executive's office
and say "Free Software",

868
00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:22,100
OK, If you're lucky, the response
you'll get is something like,

869
00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:28,600
"hmm, hmm, Free Software, must be
cheap, shoddy, worthless."

870
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,600
Uh, and if you're not lucky,
it has associations with, uh.

871
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:38,000
with the Free Software Foundation's
wholesale attack on intellectual property rights,

872
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,000
which regardless of what
you think about the ethics of that,

873
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,000
it's lousy marketing, it's not something
that businesses want to hear.

874
00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:47,900
So Eric Raymond knew there was a problem.

875
00:46:47,900 --> 00:46:50,100
We'd been calling this Free Software,

876
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:54,100
but people took the term "Free"
and associated with "Free of charge",

877
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:57,200
they thought they couldn't make money or couldn't sell,

878
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,100
which is exactly the wrong concept.

879
00:46:59,100 --> 00:47:04,700
We wanted to get across the idea the software
was open and that the source code was available.

880
00:47:04,700 --> 00:47:07,000
Very important pieces.

881
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,700
We had this meeting at the VA offices
in Mountain View, where Eric,

882
00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:17,200
myself, and Christine Peterson from Foresight Institute
joined us as well as some other people.

883
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,100
Christine Peterson was there by phone. uh..

884
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,600
Jon "Mad dog" Hall was also there by phone. uh..

885
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,300
And then Todd Anderson, who later worked for
SuSE for a while was there.

886
00:47:30,300 --> 00:47:33,300
Sam Ockman who now runs Penguin Computing was there.

887
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:36,700
He was uh.. He was an employee of VA at the time

888
00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:39,600
Well, we came up with the concept of Open Source,

889
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,900
we called Linus in fact and asked Linus if he liked it.

890
00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:46,100
He was interested, He liked it.

891
00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:48,600
Eventually we came up with something that replaced "Free Software".

892
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,200
That was the beginning of Open Source.

893
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,300
[ How did you chose words "Open Source"? ]

894
00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:57,100
You know, I think Christine Peterson was
the person who really came up with the idea.

895
00:47:57,500 --> 00:48:04,300
Uh, we wanted, again, the idea
that the source code was out there and it was open.

896
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:05,700
There weren't many choices.

897
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,800
Well, since the fist three recipients have
spoken for the Open Source movement,

898
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,300
I think I should speak about
the Free Software movement.

899
00:48:16,300 --> 00:48:19,800
The Open Source movement,
focuses on practical advantages

900
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,500
that you can get by having a community of users

901
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:26,500
who can cooperate on interchanging and improving software.

902
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,400
I agree completely with the points they make about that.

903
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,900
The reason why my views are different,
while I am in the Free Software movement

904
00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:37,000
rather than the Open Source movement,

905
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,000
is that I believe there's something
more important at stake.

906
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:45,000
That freedom to cooperate with other people,
freedom to have a community...

907
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,200
is important for our quality of life.

908
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,200
It's important for having a good society
that we can live in.

909
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:57,300
And that that is in my view, even more important
than having powerful and reliable software.

910
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,800
But I think some of the people in
the Free Software camp...

911
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,000
are a little scared by the commercialization.

912
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,000
And uh, you know,
of course a rebel is put off by success.

913
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:15,900
uh.. I think that commercialization is very important.

914
00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:18,700
We want to mainstream this software,

915
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:23,900
and I work with Richard Stallman
who's the gray haired man of Free Software,

916
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,400
uh, on a regular basis, and I don't feel

917
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,900
I have any philosophical differences.

918
00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:35,000
me as author the Open Source definition and

919
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:40,300
he is originator of free software as an organized thing,

920
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,800
except for one thing.
Richard thinks that all software should be free,

921
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,500
and I think that free software and
non-free software should coexist.

922
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:51,200
That's the only difference we have.

923
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,800
Uh, we decided early on that what we needed,

924
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,800
a..a definition, we needed a kind of
meta-license to define the term "Open Source".

925
00:49:59,000 --> 00:49:59,800
a, a definition, we needed a kind of
meta-license to define the term "Open Source".

926
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,600
And what we came up with is a document called
"The Open Source Definition".

927
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,800
It's derived from the Debian Free Software guidelines
that were originally written by Bruce Parens.

928
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:12,600
I'd written the original draft of that, uh,

929
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,100
discussed it for a month with the Debian developers

930
00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:18,800
Debian is a Linux distribution

931
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,000
And made it their project policy

932
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,900
And Eric and I decided to relabel

933
00:50:25,700 --> 00:50:27,800
what we'd written for Debian

934
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,100
as The Open Source definition

935
00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:31,400
and to say Open Source is a software

936
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,300
that gives you a list of nine rights

937
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:36,600
which is in the Open Source definition.

938
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,400
The first right is Free Redistribution

939
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,800
This doesn't mean Free as in no price

940
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,000
It means liberty

941
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,600
Um, you have to be free to redistribute

942
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,100
your software to someone else

943
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:52,300
And actually no price is a side effect

944
00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:55,600
You can charge for that redistribution or not

945
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,800
It has to come with source code

946
00:50:58,100 --> 00:51:01,500
So that someone can maintain a program.

947
00:51:01,500 --> 00:51:04,200
If they go from a PC to a Mac for example

948
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,600
they can change the software.

949
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,000
Derived Works have to be possible

950
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,700
If someone has to improve your program

951
00:51:12,700 --> 00:51:18,000
um, they should be able to distribute the result

952
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,500
uh, There is a provision about integrity

953
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:22,800
of the author's source code

954
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,900
which says that the author can sort of
maintain their honor

955
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:29,700
and if you make a change

956
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:32,400
you might have to change the name of the program

957
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,100
or mark out your change very clearly

958
00:51:35,100 --> 00:51:38,500
so that your change doesn't reflect on the author

959
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:42,300
There is no discrimination against people or groups.

960
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,200
Uh, the example I usually use is

961
00:51:44,900 --> 00:51:47,400
You can't stop an abortion clinic

962
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,600
or an anti-abortion activist from using the software

963
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,200
There is no discrimination against fields of endeavor

964
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,400
And that means the software has to be usable

965
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,900
in a business as well as in a school

966
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:04,400
The license has to be distributable

967
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:05,500
In other words

968
00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:08,900
I have to be able to give that license to someone

969
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:12,300
and that license then should work

970
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:15,000
if that someone gives it to yet a third person

971
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,800
The license can't be specific to a product

972
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,000
in other words

973
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,200
if I distribute my software on a Red Hat system

974
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:26,800
the license can't say

975
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,500
you can't distribute this on a SuSE or Debian system

976
00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:34,000
The license can't contaminate other software

977
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:40,400
So if I distribute this on a CD with another program

978
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,600
It can't say that other program must be free

979
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,500
otherwise you can't distribute my software

980
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:49,200
And then the only other part of

981
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:50,400
the Open Source definition

982
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,200
is a list of licenses that were accepted

983
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,100
And the ones that we started with were the GPL

984
00:52:57,100 --> 00:53:00,200
which was actually the example for a lot of

985
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,700
what's in the Open Source definition in the BSD license

986
00:53:03,700 --> 00:53:07,700
because software for BSD system pre-existed Linux

987
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:17,300
I think the next moment that I thought
was really pivotal

988
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:19,500
was when the database vendors flipped over

989
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:21,500
which happened about three months sooner

990
00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:22,600
than I expected to

991
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,000
and actually happened in late July early August

992
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,000
commitments to do one ports from Oracle and

993
00:53:29,300 --> 00:53:32,100
and Sybase and the other key database vendors.

994
00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:33,400
[ And why was that critical? ]

995
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,500
because we knew that in order for

996
00:53:35,500 --> 00:53:37,800
the open source story to be credible

997
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,500
and especially in order for the Linux story
to be credible,

998
00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:43,500
we'd have to get commitments from
independent software vendors

999
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:47,000
to do ports of their applications to these platforms

1000
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,600
and I was actually kind of worried

1001
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,000
I thought that we were in a window of vulnerability

1002
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,400
between the time that we announced
the open source campaign

1003
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,200
and the database vendors flipped over

1004
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,800
that was the point at which hostile action

1005
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,500
by Microsoft or other close-source software companies

1006
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:04,800
that was the point in which

1007
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,300
a serious marketing blitz might have sunk us

1008
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:11,300
but once the big database vendors flipped over

1009
00:54:11,300 --> 00:54:13,800
that opened the way for other ISVs

1010
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,700
that started the snow ball effect going

1011
00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:17,800
Every six months or so

1012
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,400
I would come back to the venture capitalists

1013
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,100
I would show them the new numbers

1014
00:54:21,100 --> 00:54:23,200
showing more and more people adopting Linux

1015
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,000
and new people porting, new users

1016
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:26,600
and I'd show them our customer list

1017
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,900
And our customer list was getting much more impressive

1018
00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:32,500
It was people like Cisco that were beginning to appear

1019
00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:35,000
people like, you know, those dot-com companies

1020
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,400
were started to show up on our customer list

1021
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,000
and eventually the venture capitalists

1022
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,000
you know, they kept looking at it

1023
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,800
they kept saying "Oh, we can't quite do it"

1024
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,000
Finally, Linus appeared on the cover of Fortune

1025
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,300
There was something happening with Open Source

1026
00:54:49,300 --> 00:54:53,300
Well, at that point, the venture capitalists
couldn't ignore it

1027
00:54:53,700 --> 00:54:56,600
they just got sick of hearing about Linux everywhere

1028
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,500
and they got tired of me, just, you know

1029
00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:01,900
showing it to them every,
at that point it was almost every week

1030
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:04,500
So they uh, they decided it was time to invest,

1031
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:06,300
that there was something happening

1032
00:55:06,300 --> 00:55:09,800
I announced Open Source to the world on the Internet

1033
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,200
I did a lot of the early... administrative work of

1034
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,700
starting the Open Source Initiative

1035
00:55:16,700 --> 00:55:18,500
and I think six months later

1036
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:21,000
I was reading the words Open Source

1037
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,600
in the news all the time

1038
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,900
and was totally astounded

1039
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:27,100
And a year later, I believe

1040
00:55:27,100 --> 00:55:31,100
Microsoft was talking about releasing some source code

1041
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,400
And someone in the press asked Steve Ballmer

1042
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,000
if they were going to open source their code

1043
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,500
and Steve Ballmer said,

1044
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:42,500
"Well, Open Source means more than
just releasing the source code"

1045
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,400
And I realized that he had read my document

1046
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,200
and understood it and was now telling
the press about this

1047
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,600
Now if you are like just a guy on the net

1048
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,900
who's not doing this for a job at all

1049
00:55:53,900 --> 00:55:55,700
and you sort of write a manifesto

1050
00:55:55,700 --> 00:55:58,000
and it spreads out through the world

1051
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:59,000
and a year later

1052
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,100
the vice president of Microsoft is talking about that

1053
00:56:02,100 --> 00:56:05,400
You'd think you were on drugs, wouldn't you?

1054
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,100
But that's what really happened

1055
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,000
The Local Users Groups
tend to be more than an issue of

1056
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:21,000
building a social network

1057
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:27,800
especially getting people familiarized with the issues

1058
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,600
also just acting as a kind of supporting network

1059
00:56:33,700 --> 00:56:38,900
for people who, who do not, for example,
have the ability

1060
00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:42,100
to pay for commercial support network

1061
00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:44,700
So one thing they're doing in this area

1062
00:56:44,700 --> 00:56:46,700
for example, is they're making these.

1063
00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:48,700
I think it's once a month

1064
00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:52,400
They're having install fests, which means that

1065
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,900
people who have problems getting Linux
installed on their machines

1066
00:56:57,100 --> 00:56:58,600
or have some issue, I mean

1067
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,000
maybe they've installed Linux

1068
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,600
but want to set up the network in a specific way

1069
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,700
can actually bring in their machines

1070
00:57:04,700 --> 00:57:05,800
to this users group meeting

1071
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,400
And there's a lot of people there willing to help

1072
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,400
who may have seen the same problem before.

1073
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,100
Well, actually things aren't so well.

1074
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:27,300
I tried it earlier myself. I had problems.

1075
00:57:27,300 --> 00:57:29,700
And so I came to this install fest where

1076
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:31,400
all the gurus abound.

1077
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,300
Hopefully I'll have better luck getting it in.

1078
00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:38,100
Instead of having, uh, sending e-mails, or

1079
00:57:38,100 --> 00:57:40,000
writing to news groups on the Internet

1080
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,500
and waiting several days for the answers sometimes

1081
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:45,500
it's easy to come here and find other people

1082
00:57:45,500 --> 00:57:46,700
who might know about your problem

1083
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:48,600
and may be able to help you

1084
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:49,700
And hopefully within a few hours

1085
00:57:49,700 --> 00:57:51,900
you have your machine installed

1086
00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:55,900
Originally I wanted to it install on
uh, my larger laptop

1087
00:57:56,100 --> 00:57:57,800
and so I just did a search on the net

1088
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,800
and found where there were resources to get help

1089
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,100
And um, I'm here today

1090
00:58:04,100 --> 00:58:07,800
cause I'm trying to put Linux on
this little guy right here.

1091
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,100
just a Toshiba Libretto

1092
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:12,700
It's not a easiest thing in the world to do

1093
00:58:12,700 --> 00:58:15,300
because it's a weird piece of hardware, so...

1094
00:58:15,300 --> 00:58:17,300
Any chairs around here?

1095
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,000
I think that Department of Justice case

1096
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,000
has made people aware of the fact that

1097
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,000
you should at least look for alternatives to Microsoft.

1098
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,000
and maybe Microsoft isn't the American dream after all

1099
00:58:40,100 --> 00:58:42,000
and that kind of shifting perception

1100
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:45,100
you can very clearly see

1101
00:58:45,100 --> 00:58:49,100
that people just took Microsoft for granted

1102
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,000
and maybe they're still buying Microsoft but at least

1103
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,900
they're kind of more aware of the issue these days

1104
00:58:54,900 --> 00:58:57,600
Microsoft actually uses Linux as defense

1105
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,000
They used Linux to ground a claim

1106
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:00,000
that they don't have a monopoly

1107
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,100
because Linux could essentially

1108
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:05,000
push them off their catbird seat at any time.

1109
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,800
It was a very ingenious argument,
totally specious

1110
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,600
because it didn't

1111
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,800
do anything to answer the charge

1112
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,400
that they had previously engaged in

1113
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,100
bullying and various anti-competitive practices.

1114
00:59:16,100 --> 00:59:17,700
but it was clever of them

1115
00:59:17,700 --> 00:59:20,200
And, in an event, the judge didn't buy it

1116
00:59:22,500 --> 00:59:25,100
While ordinarily we in the Linux community are
rather worried about

1117
00:59:25,100 --> 00:59:27,500
letting Microsoft become the issue,

1118
00:59:27,500 --> 00:59:32,700
but there was a Slashdot article
about December of '98

1119
00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:38,500
where a fellow named Matt at the noodle
had pointed out that...

1120
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:41,500
the, a gentleman in Australia has managed
to receive a refund for

1121
00:59:41,500 --> 00:59:45,500
the unused copy of Windows that
came with his computer.

1122
00:59:45,500 --> 00:59:50,000
So he declared the 19th of January, was it January?

1123
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,400
err, no, It was February. It was February.
Oh, I'm sorry, the 19th of February...

1124
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,500
he declared 19th of February
Windows Refund Day.

1125
00:59:54,500 --> 00:59:56,800
and he encouraged everyone to go to
the computer manufacturers,

1126
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,800
and return their unused copies of Windows...

1127
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:03,000
as it was specified in the
Windows End-User License Agreement.

1128
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,100
It's important to remember that
in the License itself, it says that

1129
01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:11,000
you can receive a refund if you don't use the software,

1130
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,000
and that the manufacture is bound by law to do this...

1131
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,000
or it was bond by contract.

1132
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,000
and we found if you called up
these manufactures, they basically said...

1133
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,200
"Stop bothering me kid." and hung up on you.

1134
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,200
We didn't really wanna sort of giving out our location,

1135
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,400
or where we were going to meet, until...

1136
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:28,400
you know, the very last seconds.

1137
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,800
What we did is, we have people meet
at the place where we could control

1138
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,500
in the different towns around here.

1139
01:00:33,500 --> 01:00:37,000
So I was the San Jose marshal, and I believe Nick you were...

1140
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,400
I was..., Rick Moen and I did San Francisco.

1141
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:39,900
Right

1142
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,000
and so we had maps there and we
handed them off everybody who was coming.

1143
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:48,000
Well, we actually met at a Denny's
That's just outside the Foster City limits...

1144
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,600
Foster City city limits,

1145
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,000
which meant also just outside of
Foster City Police jurisdiction,

1146
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,600
which meant any, any incidents
that happened at the meeting point

1147
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,900
happened in the jurisdiction of San Mateo,

1148
01:00:58,900 --> 01:01:02,500
and if they told us they get lost, we'd say,
"Fine, we are going to Foster city. Bye."

1149
01:01:02,500 --> 01:01:06,000
It's sort of the Dukes of Hazzard method of
avoiding the cops, so...

1150
01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:11,000
Well actually, originally we marched
on the other side of this building.

1151
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:15,000
We marched around and up onto the parking
structure that's up there,

1152
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,900
and that's where Microsoft had a reception
laid out for us with

1153
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:20,000
drinks
and a big sign that said...

1154
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,400
"Microsoft Welcomes the Open Source Community".

1155
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,400
and the local news cameras got shots of
Eric Raymond and Microsoft representative.

1156
01:01:27,500 --> 01:01:30,400
Microsoft's story seems to mostly be that...

1157
01:01:30,500 --> 01:01:35,000
...this was not an issue for Microsoft,
rather from the OEMs.

1158
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,300
So we all needed to go back to our
computer manufacturers and try yet again

1159
01:01:38,300 --> 01:01:40,400
to try and get refund from them.

1160
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,100
We responded to them saying, you know,

1161
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:46,100
that we tried that and it's not possible,
we need Microsoft to take action at this point.

1162
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,000
And they just repeated the tag line
over and over again...

1163
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,000
"you need to go to the OEMs and manufacturers
and get your refunds there."

1164
01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:58,000
We had about 150 people,
probably half of which had signs and such, so..

1165
01:01:58,500 --> 01:02:02,000
Well, we ended up actually right
in this courtyard here.

1166
01:02:02,500 --> 01:02:06,000
Basically we originally met, gathered outside,

1167
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:11,000
various people sent groups in,
people from FreeBSD camp sent a couple of folks in.

1168
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,000
We had Eric Raymond and Chris
actually tried to go up eventually.

1169
01:02:15,300 --> 01:02:17,600
They had blocked the elevator off to us.

1170
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:18,800
[ Where are the offices? ]

1171
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,000
The offices are right up here on the 9th floor.

1172
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,100
We got some really nice press out of it.

1173
01:02:25,300 --> 01:02:26,500
and we think as a result

1174
01:02:26,500 --> 01:02:30,500
Toshiba made it possible for you to buy
laptop without the operating system on it.

1175
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,000
So, it's a small victory, but...

1176
01:02:33,100 --> 01:02:37,100
Well, even now, companies such as IBM and...

1177
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,500
a lot of other computer manufacturers
are allowing you...

1178
01:02:39,500 --> 01:02:42,100
now to buy machines that don't have
Windows on them.

1179
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,800
When I was a kid and I went to school,

1180
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,100
the teachers were trying to teach us to share.

1181
01:02:56,100 --> 01:02:58,100
They said if you bring some candy,

1182
01:02:58,100 --> 01:03:01,200
you can't eat it all yourself, you
gotta share with other kids.

1183
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:06,800
But now the administration says teachers
should be teaching kids to say yes to licensing.

1184
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,800
If you bring some software to school,
"Oh! No, don't share it...

1185
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,800
...sharing means you're pirate,
sharing means you'll be put in jail."

1186
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:18,000
That's not the way society should work.
We need the good will,

1187
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,000
the willingness to help other people
at least when it's not too hard,

1188
01:03:23,300 --> 01:03:25,500
because that's the basis of society,

1189
01:03:25,500 --> 01:03:28,000
that's the fundamental resource,

1190
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,900
That gives us a society instead of
a dog-eat-dog jungle.

1191
01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:33,100
[ So what about people say if that if

1192
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:36,200
you have rampant piracy and eliminate
the profit motive and...

1193
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,000
...and creative works, software.
Will not... ]

1194
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,000
Well, they were on both counts. For one thing,

1195
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:45,000
people are making a profit from
developing Free Software,

1196
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:49,800
but for another, the freedom to
have a community is more important.

1197
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,800
[ People that look at, casually look at
Open Source Free Software and think...

1198
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,000
Well, because you are supposed to
share and do it for people's good will,

1199
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,400
Doesn't that seem someone communist.
What's your response? ]

1200
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:03,200
Absolutely nonsense,
it makes me really angry when people do that.

1201
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:08,000
Well, back in, back in 1989,
actually communism would have been a compliment.

1202
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,600
the word people were using at that time
was "crazy",

1203
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,500
and I want them to use capitalism.

1204
01:04:12,500 --> 01:04:16,000
Communism is an ideology that forces people to share.

1205
01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:19,700
If you don't share, you get thrown in jail or killed.

1206
01:04:19,900 --> 01:04:26,000
In 1990, we got a visit from a director
of an institute in uh, Moscow University,

1207
01:04:26,100 --> 01:04:30,000
and actually I saw him in Helsinki just 2 weeks ago,

1208
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,000
but in any event, he came by,

1209
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:37,000
and Richard Stallman had suggested
that he visit Cygnus,

1210
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:41,000
because he was interested in and
understanding how the Free Software model...

1211
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:46,100
might apply to stimulating entrepreneurial
innovation in Russia of all places,

1212
01:04:46,300 --> 01:04:50,300
and we had been kind of secretive
about our business plan,

1213
01:04:50,500 --> 01:04:53,200
because you know, we were'nt really
sure it's gonna work,

1214
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,000
we didn't want to look too stupid if it failed.

1215
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,300
But I was very very open with him.

1216
01:04:58,300 --> 01:05:02,200
The more I told him,
the more he started to shake his head like this,

1217
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,000
and I finally said, you know, "What's wrong?"

1218
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:11,000
And he said, "This sounds to much like communism
to be successful in Russia."

1219
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:17,000
You got to go a Gulag and end up in a mass grave
with a bullet in the back of your head.

1220
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:21,000
Open Source is not communism
because it does'nt force people.

1221
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,000
Carl Marx did not invent helping your neighbor.

1222
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,800
It's not communist to have a commons,

1223
01:05:31,900 --> 01:05:38,600
A commons existed long before communism as
a philosophy of government.

1224
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:41,500
there are many commons in our lives,

1225
01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:43,600
For example, we drive on the highway,

1226
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:47,000
something that is maintained for our common good.

1227
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,000
Actually labeling our business model...

1228
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:53,700
means that it misses the point a little bit.

1229
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:54,800
whether it's communist, or whether it's capitalist,

1230
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,400
the label doesn't matter, the real question is,

1231
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:02,000
how much value can you deliver,
how scalable is the business,

1232
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,300
what kind of problems,
what kind of of rate of innovation can you sustain.

1233
01:06:05,300 --> 01:06:09,000
and then, however you want to label that,
it's really up to you.

1234
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,600
The Revolution goes Prime Time.

1235
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,100
A lot of people described,

1236
01:06:39,100 --> 01:06:42,000
that August LinuxWorld as
"Linux's coming-out party",

1237
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:46,000
Linus Torvalds was very funny about this,
he said, "What? Was Linux gay?"

1238
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,000
But some people said
"Yeah, that was our debutante ball."

1239
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:52,700
That was when the...

1240
01:06:52,700 --> 01:06:56,700
Linux Gods, and the hardware hackers
really got it together with the suits.

1241
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,800
At 3pm on August 10th 1999,

1242
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,400
Linus Torvalds delivered the keynote
address at LinuxWorld.

1243
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,900
The crowds of 6000 people began lining up at 12 noon.

1244
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:40,000
Ladies and gentlemen,
please welcome Larry Augustin...

1245
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:45,800
LinuxWorld Conference Chair and President and
CEO of VA Linux Systems.

1246
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,000
These guys have to clap, I pay them.

1247
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:01,300
Thank you all for being here,
looks like it's been a great show so far.

1248
01:08:01,300 --> 01:08:07,600
If you'll indulge me for a moment, I'm going to
try to avoid the glare of the lights.

1249
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:11,000
I still think there's lots of people,
even though this is the 2nd show,

1250
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,500
I still think there's lots of people
who don't quite get...

1251
01:08:14,500 --> 01:08:17,000
...what it is that's so exciting about Linux.

1252
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:19,000
So there is a great show going
on next door,

1253
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,700
there's huge exhibits and everything,

1254
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:26,600
but it's the people out here
that are real contributors, not those companies.

1255
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,500
The person on next I know you all know,

1256
01:08:29,500 --> 01:08:32,400
so I don't have to give anything in the way
as introduction.

1257
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:36,000
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, Linus Torvalds.

1258
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,000
Linus

1259
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,000
Thanks.

1260
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,000
Calm down.

1261
01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:57,500
Calm down.

1262
01:08:57,500 --> 01:08:59,000
Say "oooo".

1263
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:00,000
yes.

1264
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:03,600
I don't want to just give one
of my normal talks,

1265
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:05,100
because I find them boring,

1266
01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:09,100
probably by now most of you find them boring
too because you've heard them like 10 times.

1267
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,700
But after the technical updates,
we will actually try...

1268
01:09:12,700 --> 01:09:17,200
...whether we can do a question and
answer session with 5,000 people,

1269
01:09:17,300 --> 01:09:20,000
or how many of you there are there.

1270
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,200
and it may not actually work out,

1271
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,900
because one of the 5,000 people is really loud.

1272
01:09:26,900 --> 01:09:28,000
The one thing I will do,

1273
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:32,000
which I always do in all my talks is
the gratitude thing,

1274
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:35,500
I want to kind of acknowledge the fact that...

1275
01:09:35,500 --> 01:09:38,000
...I'm obviously not been alone in doing Linux.

1276
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,000
RHAT IPO: On August 11, 1999

1277
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,700
Red Hat Software became
the first Linux company to go public.

1278
01:09:43,700 --> 01:09:45,700
Red Hat, up 228%

1279
01:09:45,700 --> 01:09:48,800
this is the IPO that everybody was waiting for.

1280
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,300
They of course are behind
the Linux operating software.

1281
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:02,000
R-H-A-T, I know

1282
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,000
All I've gotten today,

1283
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,400
are comments about
what the stock price is, all morning,

1284
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,900
you know it was
at 41, it was at 42, it was at 47,

1285
01:10:10,900 --> 01:10:13,800
it was at 53, it was at 51...

1286
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,600
Every machine as far as I can tell
on the show floor

1287
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,600
is pointed to their e-trade accounts or their
broker accounts, they know the Red Hat's price

1288
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:24,900
I can't believe this.
47

1289
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:26,700
I just heard 53.

1290
01:10:26,700 --> 01:10:27,700
Oh, boy.

1291
01:10:27,700 --> 01:10:29,700
Hang on, I didn't buy it.

1292
01:10:29,700 --> 01:10:31,100
You didn't buy?

1293
01:10:31,100 --> 01:10:33,300
No, no, I didn't buy.

1294
01:10:33,300 --> 01:10:35,000
I should've bought, but uh...

1295
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,600
No no, that's great.

1296
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:38,100
If it's... if it's....

1297
01:10:38,100 --> 01:10:39,400
You guys don't know?

1298
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:40,500
Well, you know

1299
01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:42,800
Red Hat being successful as just means that

1300
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:46,300
It legitimizes Linux
So it's much easier for us to go out

1301
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,000
Rob Malda (CmdrTaco) ...
on the Red Hat IPO

1302
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,000
It's kind of been a little bit divided.

1303
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:09,000
You've got a lot of people

1304
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,000
that are pretty hardcore and

1305
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:11,300
And they're kind of offended by that

1306
01:11:11,300 --> 01:11:14,400
you know, cause they work really hard,
they are not really getting...

1307
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:16,900
maybe they fair share out of that.

1308
01:11:16,900 --> 01:11:18,100
Some people do get ticked.

1309
01:11:18,100 --> 01:11:19,200
and you know the thing

1310
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:21,400
that you see that on a lot of mailing lists
or on Slashdot you'll read, you know

1311
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:27,200
This guy is really mad because he didn't
get chance to, he's didn't get a chance to do...

1312
01:11:28,300 --> 01:11:29,700
to get stock from Red Hat

1313
01:11:29,700 --> 01:11:34,700
He didn't get a chance to get...
to get a job from this other company, you know.

1314
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,700
But the, the kind of the shocking secret
there is that,

1315
01:11:38,700 --> 01:11:41,800
Most the really hardcore guys,
you know, they don't care so much.

1316
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,600
The guys that are kind of really down in trenches.

1317
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:46,000
They're writing this code because
they need this code.

1318
01:11:46,300 --> 01:11:48,400
If we could invite Richard Stallman

1319
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,800
who's the founder of
the Free Software Association

1320
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:53,700
and Tim Ney, who's the managing director.

1321
01:11:53,700 --> 01:11:57,000
There we go.  Hahahahaha

1322
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,200
Ah, here it is.

1323
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:04,800
Now, Richard, I saw you playing your recorder
at, in Paris at that Linux conference

1324
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,200
But I didn't have audio tracks.

1325
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,400
So would you them to add audio to their, uh...

1326
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:10,400
Video downstream next time

1327
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:12,600
Uh..I don't have any control over that

1328
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:16,600
unfortunately those things can
only be done with non-free software.

1329
01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:23,400
We'll give you the award, and before you say a word,

1330
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:28,300
we'll have a Tim and yourself hold up
a little representation of the contribution

1331
01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:30,800
towards the Free Software Association.

1332
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,800
So, very ironic things have happened,

1333
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,000
but nothing to match this

1334
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,600
Giving the Linus Tovarlds award
to the Free Software Foundation

1335
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,600
is sort of like giving the
Han Solo award to the rebel fleet.

1336
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:56,000
You see, some of you may not realize how far
that analogy goes.

1337
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:01,300
But actually let me tell you
how this, how we got here.

1338
01:13:01,300 --> 01:13:02,800
see what happened is,

1339
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,400
15 years ago, if you wanted to use a computer,

1340
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:09,400
the only way you could do it
was to, was with proprietary software,

1341
01:13:10,300 --> 01:13:13,000
software that divides and subjugates the users.

1342
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:14,900
And most people just...

1343
01:13:14,900 --> 01:13:16,200
A lot of people didn't like it.

1344
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:17,700
But they saw no alternative.

1345
01:13:17,700 --> 01:13:21,500
But some of us were determined
to make an alternative.

1346
01:13:21,500 --> 01:13:25,500
And we said we're gonna develop
a free operating system,

1347
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:27,400
a free software operating system

1348
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:33,100
that will give users the chance to have freedom
while they use their computers.

1349
01:13:33,700 --> 01:13:36,300
Now a lot of people said, "Well, it's a nice idea

1350
01:13:36,300 --> 01:13:38,600
but it's so hard, you'll never get it done,

1351
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:42,500
so I don't wanna participate,
I don't believe you can ever get it done."

1352
01:13:42,500 --> 01:13:45,300
But luckily not everybody said that.

1353
01:13:45,300 --> 01:13:49,200
And clearly, we knew
we would eventually get the kernel done.

1354
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:50,500
But as it happens.

1355
01:13:50,500 --> 01:13:53,600
somebody else did a better kernel before we did.

1356
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:57,200
Now in the old days, we had an overall strategy

1357
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,800
from calling people's attention
to the importance of freedom

1358
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,800
To the freedom they can have, or not have,
when they use a computer.

1359
01:14:05,500 --> 01:14:07,600
Well what can we do about it?
As far as I can tell,

1360
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:13,600
the only workable way of trying to
change this make that strategy work again

1361
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:19,800
is to, spread the word that the operating system
you're using is actually the GNU system.

1362
01:14:19,900 --> 01:14:22,100
Somewhat modified of course.

1363
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,100
And when people know this,

1364
01:14:25,100 --> 01:14:28,600
they'll take a look at the reasons
we developed this system.

1365
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:30,500
They'll think about these issues.

1366
01:14:30,500 --> 01:14:33,300
And some of them will decide they agree.

1367
01:14:33,300 --> 01:14:36,600
So I ask people,
please tell the people this is the GNU system.

1368
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:40,600
It's the combination of GNU and Linux
so we can call it GNU/Linux

1369
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,900
[ So Larry, when you were at Stanford
8, 9 years ago during your Ph.D

1370
01:14:49,900 --> 01:14:51,600
did you ever think you'd be in this position? ]

1371
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:52,500
No

1372
01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:53,900
[ All kidding aside. ]

1373
01:14:53,900 --> 01:14:55,800
No I had no idea honestly

1374
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,600
[ What did you think you would be
when you were finished up with your Ph.D? ]

1375
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:00,000
You know that's a good question,

1376
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,300
I really didn't have a good idea, I mean.

1377
01:15:02,300 --> 01:15:05,600
Here we are, on this huge show floor.

1378
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,600
There are people just going crazy about Linux.

1379
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:12,000
We had 6,200 people crammed into a room

1380
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,300
to see the Linux, Linus speak last night.

1381
01:15:15,300 --> 01:15:16,900
Here we are, with, you know,

1382
01:15:16,900 --> 01:15:19,600
all of these huge venders all over the show.

1383
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,700
I..It's, just, you have no idea that
this is gonna happen.

1384
01:15:22,700 --> 01:15:25,500
I mean this is just this little operating system
that we're happy with.

1385
01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:27,500
that a few people cared about, you know,

1386
01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:29,500
I thought I'd have a nice little
consulting business.

1387
01:15:29,500 --> 01:15:30,900
And here I am suddenly,

1388
01:15:30,900 --> 01:15:33,400
with all of this huge show going on.

1389
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:34,400
It's just incredible.

1390
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,600
I mean, a year ago, you could look and say,
you know, this is gonna be big

1391
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,400
and everyone standing at the show going

1392
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:41,800
"You know the show was big last year,

1393
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,800
is it gonna, is it gonna be as big as this year?"

1394
01:15:44,900 --> 01:15:46,100
The you remind them

1395
01:15:46,100 --> 01:15:48,300
"You know, last year was only 6 month ago."

1396
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,300
And then they go "Oh, , Linux time".

1397
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,200
So leading up to the IPO, uh...

1398
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:25,200
we had arrived actually in San Diego
on Tuesday night

1399
01:16:25,500 --> 01:16:29,500
We spent Wednesday morning meeting investors
in San Diego.

1400
01:16:29,900 --> 01:16:31,300
We flew up to San Francisco

1401
01:16:31,300 --> 01:16:35,200
spent Wednesday afternoon meeting
investment firms in San Francisco

1402
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:36,100
VA Linux Selected
December 9, 1999, as the day
for its stock to begin trading.

1403
01:16:36,100 --> 01:16:39,500
then on the Thursday morning of the IPO is

1404
01:16:39,500 --> 01:16:42,000
when our stock would be traded publically.

1405
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,800
So it was nice we had ended
the tour in San Francisco

1406
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,700
because we could go to the credit suite's
trading desk the next morning

1407
01:16:49,700 --> 01:16:51,600
to watch the public offering.

1408
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:55,600
And in San Francisco being close
enough to the company, and to our families,

1409
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,600
we could invite people up to
actually join us in the first trade.

1410
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,700
So I invited my wife and we invited Linus and Tove,

1411
01:17:02,700 --> 01:17:06,200
and a number of other friends and people
who worked in the company in to join us.

1412
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:07,700
Whenever we invite Linus and Tove,

1413
01:17:07,700 --> 01:17:10,800
they have uh, two young children,

1414
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:12,800
and I have a daughter, Andrea.

1415
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:14,300
And we always bring the kids along

1416
01:17:14,300 --> 01:17:16,300
so we went in to the credit suite's trading floor

1417
01:17:16,300 --> 01:17:18,700
with all these traders and there are these 3 year old kids

1418
01:17:18,700 --> 01:17:21,000
running around and chasing each other
around the show floor,

1419
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:22,000
around the trading floor.

1420
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:27,200
So Linus and I walked in and
we walked up in to the trading floor

1421
01:17:27,300 --> 01:17:28,600
and everyone was very excited.

1422
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,800
And we kept asking them, well
"Hows it going? Are things going ok?".

1423
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,600
And they said, "Oh, it's.. uh, we're really excited,

1424
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:35,800
I think things are going well.

1425
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:39,400
We don't wanna, We don't wanna say,
We don't wanna jinx anything."

1426
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:43,400
We walked in and it was a big screen TV showing CNBC.

1427
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:48,000
And it was amazing to us,
but the theme for the day was Linux.

1428
01:17:48,100 --> 01:17:50,500
Now we have an IPO that's gonna go today.

1429
01:17:50,500 --> 01:17:52,700
And when I mean go, it is going to go.

1430
01:17:52,700 --> 01:17:54,700
The estimates I'm hearing are staggering.

1431
01:17:54,700 --> 01:17:58,200
But watch VA Linux Systems. It goes at 12:40 today.

1432
01:17:58,200 --> 01:17:59,900
The symbol is L-N-U-X.

1433
01:17:59,900 --> 01:18:03,500
A provider of large scale computer
servers and workstations,

1434
01:18:03,500 --> 01:18:05,700
specially designed for the Linux operating system.

1435
01:18:05,700 --> 01:18:11,800
The original range on this IPO was
11 to 13 dollars, then 21 to 23, then 28 to 30.

1436
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,300
Priced at 30, and the estimates I'm hearing
I don't wanna repeat

1437
01:18:15,300 --> 01:18:16,600
because I don't have a confirmation.

1438
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:21,500
But if they're true, they will blow you're mind
when this stock takes off at 12:40.

1439
01:18:21,500 --> 01:18:23,900
I turned to Linus and I said "Gee, did you ever think,

1440
01:18:23,900 --> 01:18:29,100
you know, you'd walk in here some day and
Linux would be THE theme on CNBC?".

1441
01:18:29,700 --> 01:18:32,400
and Linus said in his joking way said "Oh Absolutely!".

1442
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:36,300
So we walk in and they show us
the buy and sell orders coming in..

1443
01:18:36,300 --> 01:18:38,300
and it's incredible.

1444
01:18:38,300 --> 01:18:41,900
We're seeing numbers like
320 dollars, 340 dollars a share.

1445
01:18:42,500 --> 01:18:44,400
And I'm just in complete shock.

1446
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:49,700
You know, this is over 10 times
where we priced the offering. It was incredible.

1447
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:54,000
And I remember Linus just kind of,
sort of patting me on the back and saying,

1448
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:58,000
you know "Relax..." and it was
pretty exciting to see that.

1449
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,900
We were, it was just amazing. We were stunned.

1450
01:19:01,300 --> 01:19:04,300
We were lucky that we were able to
get back to the offices,

1451
01:19:04,300 --> 01:19:08,100
we'd been in San Francisco
so we could come back to VA's offices

1452
01:19:08,100 --> 01:19:10,600
to, to see everyone in the office for the IPO.

1453
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:15,500
When we got back, we had uh,
everyone was obviously very excited.

1454
01:19:16,100 --> 01:19:18,800
The IPO had done just tremendously well.

1455
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:22,400
We had a little party that we put together.

1456
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:24,100
It was interesting, while we were celebrating

1457
01:19:24,100 --> 01:19:26,600
there were plenty of people that were still trying to work.

1458
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:30,400
I recall cries of "Be quiet!",
"We're on the phone!", "We're Working!",

1459
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:34,100
Uh, as we uh, as we went in to the offices.

1460
01:19:34,100 --> 01:19:37,900
One of the things I did was
I gave the road show presentation

1461
01:19:37,900 --> 01:19:39,700
for the employees back at the office,

1462
01:19:39,700 --> 01:19:42,800
so they could have an idea of
what we'd been telling investors,

1463
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:46,400
and understand exactly what we'd uh,
put together for them.

1464
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:55,100
But again the story of the day is VA Linux,
now up 766% to 235 dollars to 265.

1465
01:19:55,300 --> 01:19:57,700
Sue, the best performing IPO ever.

1466
01:19:57,700 --> 01:20:03,200
Here it goes, Sycamore Networks was uh,
priced at 38 dollars, surged to $270.

1467
01:20:03,500 --> 01:20:05,800
This has just beat it. And by the way..

1468
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:09,800
[ How do you feel about potentially billions
of dollars of wealth being created

1469
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:14,000
from your creation,
that you're not directly cashing out? ]

1470
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:18,000
So, if I hadn't made Linux available, I mean,

1471
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:21,300
I wouldn't have gotten any money that way either.

1472
01:20:21,300 --> 01:20:24,200
So I mean, It's a win-win situation.

1473
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:31,000
Uh, just the fact that there are
a lot of commercial companies

1474
01:20:31,100 --> 01:20:37,000
means that there are a lot of Linux people
who used to work on Linux kind of on the side.

1475
01:20:37,500 --> 01:20:40,200
And now they get paid for
doing what they wanted to do.

1476
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:44,800
And that helps me in the sense that
I wanted them to work on Linux anyway.

1477
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:11,700
The whole GNU project is really one big hack.

1478
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:16,200
It's one big act of subversive playful cleverness,

1479
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:22,300
to change society for the better, because
I'm only interested in changing it for the better,

1480
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:26,600
but in a clever way.

1481
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,800
Hi, we're the GNU/Stallmans, and this is
"The Free Software Song"

1482
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:35,400
Join us now and share the software;

1483
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:42,200
You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free.

1484
01:21:43,100 --> 01:21:43,900
You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free.

1485
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,700
Hoarders may get piles of money,

1486
01:21:54,700 --> 01:22:02,100
That is true, hackers, that is true.

1487
01:22:03,900 --> 01:22:07,300
But they cannot help their neighbors;

1488
01:22:07,300 --> 01:22:15,300
That's ain't good, hackers, that's ain't good.

1489
01:22:19,500 --> 01:22:22,500
When we have enough free software

1490
01:22:22,500 --> 01:22:29,800
At our call, hackers, at our call,

1491
01:22:31,900 --> 01:22:35,100
We'll throw out those dirty licenses

1492
01:22:35,100 --> 01:22:42,900
Ever more, hackers, ever more.

1493
01:23:17,900 --> 01:23:21,200
Join us now and share the software;

1494
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:28,400
You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free.

1495
01:23:30,300 --> 01:23:33,300
Join us now and share the software;

1496
01:23:33,300 --> 01:23:39,900
You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free.

1497
01:23:42,100 --> 01:23:44,900
Oh, you'll be free

1498
01:23:44,900 --> 01:23:46,600
I let you know.

1499
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,500
That you'll be free. [ repeat ]

1500
01:23:49,500 --> 01:23:51,400
I let you know

1501
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:55,400
That you'll be free. [ repeat ]

1502
01:23:58,500 --> 01:24:02,500
That you'll be free. [ repeat ]